An Illustrated History of Old Sutton in St. Helens, Lancashire
Part 80 (of 95 parts) - Can You Help?
Old Sutton in St Helens
A Passionist Puzzler by Tony Hignett
This is a photograph of four priests taken in an arched doorway and I think it may be somewhere at St Annes as two of the priests are Passionists and the other two appear to be secular. The photograph came from my great grandmother's house in Doulton Street, St Helens but she was married at St Joseph’s and her family before that are buried at St Anne’s. I also think the two secular priests may be associated with St Therese as they look very like Fr Cornelius McEnroe and an old Fr Ralph Holden. The only strange thing is the photographer is Kay and Foley of Southport. {Stephen’s note. A photograph of Fr. McEnroe for comparative purposes can be seen here and there's a strong likeness to the individual in Tony's picture. However Fr. Holden had died 7-8 years before Fr. McEnroe was appointed parish priest at St. Theresa’s and the doorway and brickwork in the picture does not resemble known photos of St Anne’s Monastery. What do you think? You can drop a line here. (Added 28/04/2015)ANSWER FROM FR. BRENDAN MCCONVERY: Actually, only one of those priests is a Passionist. The man on the extreme right in the habit with white collar and long rosary, is a Redemptorist. I think he belonged to the Irish Province, but the name escapes me at the moment. As he is wearing a mission cross in his belt, as is the Passionist, I am inclined to think they were both preaching a mission in the parish where the other two men were parish priest and curate. (Added 02/11/2017)
The Williams Family by Tom Williams
Tom Williams, who now resides in Sheffield, would like help in identifying the people in two family photographs. Tom initially lived at 23 Powell Street in Sutton until his family moved to 278 Robins Lane in 1948. The above picture shows his grandfather - also called Tom Williams - standing with his back to the door along with some of his friends. Tom writes: "Given that one of them is wearing a button hole and that all are well dressed, could it have been a wedding"? Tom's second photograph (above) is believed to have been taken in the Conservative Club in Edgeworth Street during the 1950s. But what is the event and who are the people? The decorations suggest a festive occasion, perhaps Christmas. Tom is also keen to trace any possible descendants of his maternal great-uncle, Samuel Hope, born in 1893. He lived with wife Gertrude at 192 Borough Road, St.Helens and died in 1918 during WW1. Samuel is buried in Etaples cemetery near Boulogne (right). It is not known whether he had any children or whether Samuel’s widow Gertrude remarried.ANSWER FROM JANE RALPH: Regarding the photo of the Conservative Club, I can identify two of the people featured. At the far right of the photo in the middle row sit my great grandfather William Leicester and his daughter, my grandmother next to him, Constance (née Leicester) Ralph. My beloved grandmother died aged 89 in 1998. I bare a striking resemblance to her. William Leicester lived with his family on the corner of Marshalls Cross Road and had a garage and petrol station business. My father Peter Leicester Ralph was born in 1943 and would have attended Robins Lane school, later Cowley Boys Grammar. Later the council compulsory purchased the property to build a road. The bybass was however only built some 40 years later. In the meantime the Leicesters had moved to Mill Lane Rainhill. William's brother Frederick Leicester was a research chemist at ICI and lived in Mill Lane Sutton, being also a talented watercolourist. My family are still in possession of Fred's wonderful artwork. (Added 13/05/2018)
Request for Help with Research on the Fairhurst Family by Julie BlighMy great-granddad was Joseph Fairhurst who was born around 1863, according to his marriage certificate. He married Sarah Shaw in 1896 and then Joseph was living at 31 Blinkhorns Row, near Lancots Lane in Sutton. His father is not named on the certificate and so far I’ve been unable to find out who Joseph’s parents were or exactly where he was living when he was born. Family members say their parents had told them that they had connections with Robins Lane.
The above picture is of the wedding of my Nan and Grandad, Annie Burkhill and Thomas Fairhurst in December 1934. Thomas was born at 77 Waterdale Crescent in Sutton and after marriage, the couple lived at 123 Herbert Street, where I was born. Sarah Fairhurst (née Shaw) is the lady sat on the left wearing a hat and dressed in black. The Burkhill family are pictured below and came from Windle. I would be interested to know if anyone can identify any others in the pictures or solve the mystery of Joseph Fairhurst's father. You can contact me at true_jue@hotmail.com. JULIE BLIGH (Added 16/04/2013)
Request for Information on the Wilcocks of Sutton Manor by Fredie Winstanley
I was born Freda Wilcock in Sutton Manor, St. Helens in 1944. My dad, Harley Wilcock, married Jeannette [Jenny] Hayton and worked at Sutton Manor Colliery for most of his working life. He shovelled coal into the boilers/ furnaces that provided air to the men down the pit. My mother had also worked at the colliery, sorting coal that came through on the coal belt. They lived on Tennyson Street as depicted on the website...I cried when I saw the photo. My Grandma, Mary Ellen Hayton, was well-known in the area and for many years was a caretaker at Sutton Manor School on Forest Road and sang in the church choir.
My uncle, Tommy Wilcock, lived at number 74 Tennyson Street, probably until the 1990s and who knows if someone in the family still lives there...probably not. I know the houses were for sale by the colliery many years ago, and I don't know if my uncle Tommy ever purchased his.
My dad, Harley, used to play piano wherever he could, including at the Horseshoe pub in Parr. I used to work there in my youth, and he used to get everyone singing. He always seemed to be at the piano, and he never took one lesson; couldn't read music to save his life! My parents came to live in the US in 1970 but have both since died.
As for me, I've lived in Florida since 1964, and I really don't know where most of the Wilcock family are, however I suspect some are still in the St. Helens area. My dad, Harley and my uncle, Tommy, were two of 6 or 7 brothers and one sister. If anyone knows where any of them may be, please do get in touch. It would be nice to visit and go to a pub or two! Personally, I've been divorced now for about 17 years (oh my goodness, that long!) and I would like to see what has happened to my family, and to plan a visit to see some of the places I didn't visit while I lived there. My email address is few64@att.net and my cellphone number (mobile) in the US is: 386-748-1898. FREDIE WINSTANLEY (Added 10/02/2013)
UPDATE FROM FREDIE: I've had a little success in contacting some of the Wilcock family...the website helped tremendously. I've been contacted by a second cousin, which has led to other second cousins, and to my cousin David Wilcock...how thrilling! The Wilcock family will be holding a family reunion in July this year, likely to be in Southport. (Added 29/6/2013)
Request for Information on an Orville Street Advert by Karen Lyons
I have lived at number 10 Orville Street in Sutton for the past 33 years. This is the end house and has the remnants of a large advert for a shop painted on the gable end wall. This used to be quite visible but sadly now has faded and I am unable to read it. I wonder if anyone remembers what the advert was for? Please contact me via the website. KAREN LYONS (Added 12/11/2012)
ANSWER FROM KEN MORGAN: I used to live at 11 Wilbur Street and the advert was for Hawley's plumbers of Junction Lane. Hawley's chip shop was next door to the plumbers, which may have been owned by the same family. (Added 21/1/2013)
ANSWER FROM NEIL HAWLEY-EVANS: The advert was for my Grandad's plumbing business. His name was William Hawley and he ran his business from no 81 Junction Lane. As a very young kid I remember looking up to it as he told us the story of how he'd had to paint out certain details during the war. He passed peacefully in his sleep on New Years Eve 1972. Years later, by a strange quirk of fate, I had the opportunity to go back into his house. The front shop was a trophy engraving business and the upstairs had been converted into a self-contained flat. Whilst he ran a successful plumbing business, during his lifetime he actually never got around to installing a bathroom in his own house! There was an outside toilet at the bottom of the yard and a brick-built air raid shelter. (Added 15/1/2017)
My uncle, Tommy Wilcock, lived at number 74 Tennyson Street, probably until the 1990s and who knows if someone in the family still lives there...probably not. I know the houses were for sale by the colliery many years ago, and I don't know if my uncle Tommy ever purchased his.
As for me, I've lived in Florida since 1964, and I really don't know where most of the Wilcock family are, however I suspect some are still in the St. Helens area. My dad, Harley and my uncle, Tommy, were two of 6 or 7 brothers and one sister. If anyone knows where any of them may be, please do get in touch. It would be nice to visit and go to a pub or two! Personally, I've been divorced now for about 17 years (oh my goodness, that long!) and I would like to see what has happened to my family, and to plan a visit to see some of the places I didn't visit while I lived there. My email address is few64@att.net and my cellphone number (mobile) in the US is: 386-748-1898. FREDIE WINSTANLEY (Added 10/02/2013)
UPDATE FROM FREDIE: I've had a little success in contacting some of the Wilcock family...the website helped tremendously. I've been contacted by a second cousin, which has led to other second cousins, and to my cousin David Wilcock...how thrilling! The Wilcock family will be holding a family reunion in July this year, likely to be in Southport. (Added 29/6/2013)
Request for Information on an Orville Street Advert by Karen Lyons
I have lived at number 10 Orville Street in Sutton for the past 33 years. This is the end house and has the remnants of a large advert for a shop painted on the gable end wall. This used to be quite visible but sadly now has faded and I am unable to read it. I wonder if anyone remembers what the advert was for? Please contact me via the website. KAREN LYONS (Added 12/11/2012)
ANSWER FROM KEN MORGAN: I used to live at 11 Wilbur Street and the advert was for Hawley's plumbers of Junction Lane. Hawley's chip shop was next door to the plumbers, which may have been owned by the same family. (Added 21/1/2013)
ANSWER FROM NEIL HAWLEY-EVANS: The advert was for my Grandad's plumbing business. His name was William Hawley and he ran his business from no 81 Junction Lane. As a very young kid I remember looking up to it as he told us the story of how he'd had to paint out certain details during the war. He passed peacefully in his sleep on New Years Eve 1972. Years later, by a strange quirk of fate, I had the opportunity to go back into his house. The front shop was a trophy engraving business and the upstairs had been converted into a self-contained flat. Whilst he ran a successful plumbing business, during his lifetime he actually never got around to installing a bathroom in his own house! There was an outside toilet at the bottom of the yard and a brick-built air raid shelter. (Added 15/1/2017)
ANSWER FROM KEN MORGAN: I used to live at 11 Wilbur Street and the advert was for Hawley's plumbers of Junction Lane. Hawley's chip shop was next door to the plumbers, which may have been owned by the same family. (Added 21/1/2013)
ANSWER FROM NEIL HAWLEY-EVANS: The advert was for my Grandad's plumbing business. His name was William Hawley and he ran his business from no 81 Junction Lane. As a very young kid I remember looking up to it as he told us the story of how he'd had to paint out certain details during the war. He passed peacefully in his sleep on New Years Eve 1972. Years later, by a strange quirk of fate, I had the opportunity to go back into his house. The front shop was a trophy engraving business and the upstairs had been converted into a self-contained flat. Whilst he ran a successful plumbing business, during his lifetime he actually never got around to installing a bathroom in his own house! There was an outside toilet at the bottom of the yard and a brick-built air raid shelter. (Added 15/1/2017)
Request for Information on the Crooks / Pusill Family by Brenda Winstanley
My Great Grandfather was born Thomas Crooks, the son of William Crooks who was killed on the railway line in Sutton. When Thomas married Ellen Mercer he used his mother's maiden name of Pusill. I was told that this was because in those days if you were named Crooks, you were classed as a crook. They were married on 12th of April 1847 at St. Wilfred's Chapel at Farnworth near Prescot, now called St. Luke's. Thomas and Ellen lived in Ditch Hillock (now Waterdale Crescent) in Sutton and all their children were born there.
They had 11 children in Ellen's short life as she died aged 44 and is buried in a common grave at St. Nicholas Church Yard, where all her children were christened. Out of the 11 children, only 8 survived beyond childhood. All the children were christened under the name of Pusill with various spellings, even though in censuses they used the name of Crooks. My Grandmother was the youngest living child and she had 5 older sisters and 2 brothers. The girls all married under the name of Crooks but the boys all kept the name of Pusill.
The next sister to my Grandmother was Sarah Ellen who emigrated to the USA soon after their father died on the 11th May 1876. Thomas had left his money to his children in his will. It wasn't very much but it was enough for Sarah Ellen to emigrate. She sailed from Liverpool to Boston on the Sefalonia in February 1898. What she did after that until she married a Richard Nixon of Manchester in Boston in November 1911 isn't known. Although she must have moved to Los Angeles after that and her husband died before her in 1943. I don’t know if she ever wrote home but if she did my Grandmother couldn’t have read it. Sarah Ellen was illiterate as far as words were concerned but could add up to the nearest farthing.
In 1945 there was an advert in the Sunday People looking for any relations of a Sarah Ellen Pusill who had died in the USA and left a lot of money to her brothers and sisters but none of them were still alive. My Grandmother was the last to die on the 7th January 1944 and Sarah Ellen had died the previous year on 19th November 1944. My mother made a claim - as did the rest of the Crooks Pusill clan - to the solicitor in Scotland. They had to be represented by a local solicitor too and with the one in the USA, the money dwindled. Each family only got just over £200 between them. They also received a Family Tree which is what got me researching my family background.
Over the years I have tried to find out where Sarah Ellen went to after arriving in Boston, where she is buried and how she came to be so wealthy. The mystery is still bothering me and I suppose it will carry on for the rest of my life. I have a copy of when she was made a citizen of the USA and it was signed with a cross, so she must still have been illiterate. It's amazing that an illiterate girl went to the USA and left a fortune. If anyone can help me with this quest I would be very grateful. Please get in touch with this website if you can help. BRENDA WINSTANLEY (née Fairclough (Added 10/09/2012)
Request About Howard & May Taylor and Ruth Barrow by Donna La RueInformation on Howard and May Taylor, once of Sutton, St. Helens, or on Ruth Barrow, (b. 1899 in St. Helens) or others related to them, is sought by Donna La Rue, a descendant of theirs living in Boston, MA, (USA). She visited the area with her sister Anna on a bicycle camping tour of the UK and Europe in 1973. An aunt, Priscilla (Ruth's daughter) had begun doing the family's history, discovered that their relatives were still living in the area at the time (both sides of the family apparently thought those on the other side of the puddle were extinct) and had gotten in touch with the Taylors by mail.
After visiting back and forth, and keeping up a correspondence for several years, a disagreement caused them to stop writing. Later efforts to find other family members have suggested that both Howard and his wife had died, and the children had moved away. When Priscilla died, someone else cleared her home, and many of the family research materials she had compiled were unfortunately lost. In doing her own studies of medieval liturgical arts, Donna gets to the UK/Europe fairly regularly now, and has often wanted to re-connect with and re-visit any family members that might be interested as well. The facts she can recall that might help in identifying them include:
a) Howard played the trumpet and directed a brass band at the coal mine where he was a safety inspector; he also taught several children to play the horn.
b) They had four children, one of whom played rugby for Lancashire (and who properly disputed the rights of Manchester's citizens to exist, on the playing field only, of course...).
c) They lived in a brick row house that backed onto a lane near where their oldest (married) son lived in another row house behind them, with his wife; at the time of Donna's and Anna's visit, in 1973, they were expecting their first child.
d) Staying about a week, Donna and her sister arrived by bicycle and train, and especially enjoyed the warm custard and jelly rolls May prepared, and the sausage rolls she made for high tea (and would love those recipes, now!)
e) The Taylors were related to the family of Alfred Howard by marriage in the mid-1800s; their daughter Angeline married an Alfred Barrow, from Widnis, who apparently came to live in St. Helens, possibly somewhere near his wife's family. Alfred's family came from Wigin in the early 1800s (c.1830).
f) One elderly female relative of the family was still alive in 1973 and had an irrepressible store of jokes, riddles ("what has soap for a nose, rope for a tail, four belly-whangers, and a wagabout?"--a cow) and old songs with which she could regale her visitors for several hours.
If anyone has information they would be willing to share, or would be willing to pass on this request to someone who might know more or be willing to respond directly themselves, it would be much appreciated! Please contact this website if you have any information. DONNA LA RUE (Added 11/01/2012)Return To Farnworth and Bold Mystery
George Devine would like to find out more about the above enamel sign which he has recently acquired. Can anyone provide any details as to where it was located and its purpose? It's certainly railway-related and connected with the old Farnworth and Bold Railway station. It's an enamel sign and it measures approximately 15" x 10".
Originally known as Farnworth when it opened c.1852, the station added the 'and Bold' in 1890. It closed to passenger traffic in 1953 and to all traffic in 1964. Bold did have its own railway station, but it only lasted five years after opening in 1853. If you have any ideas about the sign, email George at george.devine@ntlworld.com (Added 15/4/2011)
The Williams and Lacy Families by Tom WilliamsCan anyone help with my research into the Williams family tree and the Lacy family? I think that John Lacy may have been the third husband of my great-grandmother, Mary, who had been born Ingleby, married Richard Chorley then William Simms and finally John Lacy. The Lacy family may have had a gypsy background. In the 1891 census the Lacy’s are shown as living at 46 Walkers Lane.
I was born in 1943 in Sutton in Powell Street where a number of branches of the Williams family and some of the Simms also lived. In 1948 we moved to the 'step houses' in Robins Lane where I lived with my parents, Jack and Hannah, until I went to university in 1961. While the 'step houses' in Robins Lane are still there, Powell Street has all but disappeared, certainly number 23 has. My uncle was Tom Williams, quite a prominent local businessman, who owned the Red Rose bicycle and electrical shop on Peckershill Road opposite the end of Junction Lane (I think it's a takeaway now).
He also owned a yard and buildings off Fisher Street that he used as a garage and where he used to charge glass accumulators ('accys') that he sold or rented out for use in powering the early radios ('wirelesses'). The garage had been a slaughter house at one time (Fletchers?) and I remember it had a well in the yard covered over with bricks. I wonder if the occupants of the property that’s been built there still have the well in their garden or under the house or perhaps it was filled in? Long after his first wife died, uncle Tom married Alice Downs whose brother had the ironmonger's shop next door to the Red Rose. His daughter, my cousin Mary, eventually took over the shop. She still lives in Sutton.
Any help anyone can provide regarding the Lacy's will be very welcome. Also, if anyone has old photos of Powell Street, I would be delighted to see them. Finally, if anyone has a photo that includes number 64 Watery Lane, again I would be interested to see it. This house, which is no longer standing, was once occupied by my grandparents, Tom and Mary Williams. TOM WILLIAMS
Tom can be contacted via this website (Added 30/01/2011)
Clerical Mysteries by Patrick Smith
Patrick Smith's father was Rev. J. R. ‘Reg’ Smith who was the Vicar of Sutton between 1959 and 1966. In Patrick's possession are a couple of photographs which require explanation. In the above picture, Patrick can identify curate John Lewis, who is stood next to his mother Thea on the right of the photo, but would like to know who the others are and what the occasion is. Can you help? The man standing next to the curate seems to be speaking into a microphone and the little girl has, perhaps, won a prize. Patrick believes the location is at the front of the Vicarage on New Street, now the site of a care home.
ANSWER FROM HARRY HICKSON: The photo is taken at the Vicarage in New Street, and is I believe a prize-giving for the Sunday School class which covered Kindergarden, Infants and Junior age children. The people other than those named are Mr Walter Travers, the People’s Church Warden, who lived in Mill Lane near the Wheatsheaf Hotel, Mrs Travers presenting the little girl (unknown), with her prize, and Mr Fred Leicester - the Vicar’s Church Warden who also lived in Mill Lane next to Fenney’s Farm - at the microphone. Both Mr Travers, 1951-1962, and Mr Leicester, 1951-1961, were Wardens at the Church for ten years. (Added 28/2/2014)
In the second photograph (above) the occasion is again unknown although Patrick thinks it could be a leaving 'do' at Sutton National School. However, all apart from the man standing and the lady sat next to him can be identified. From L-R back row is Arthur Morgan (Warden of All Saints), Bill Harrington (Curate i/c All Saints), Fred Cheal (Curate St. Nicholas), Fred Thomas (Warden St. Nicholas); From L-R front row Bill Davidson (Lovingly known as "Fat William"), Rev. Reg Smith, Unknown and possibly his wife, Thea Smith. Does anybody know what the occasion is? SRW (Added 21/12/2010)
ANSWER FROM HARRY HICKSON: In the first photo at the Vicarage I have no idea of the event, as you said, probably some prize giving, but the chap at the microphone looks awfully like a Mr Lester who lived in Mill Lane, and with his wife were very strong church attenders. He was a retired industrial chemist, and I believe was the Chief Chemist at the Magnum Research Factory during the war. Why he would be in the group I am not sure, and I don't recognise any others. In the second photo I agree that it is probably 'A leaving do', and I think the chap making the response is a Mr Ashcroft who taught me at Robins Lane Secondary Modern, and being Headmaster at Sutton Nash would have been a promotion for him. Here is a photo of the staff at Robins Lane in 1950 showing Mr Ashcroft extreme right, back row, it certainly looks like him, but whilst having some knowledge of my former staff after leaving school in 1952, Mr Ashcroft wasn't one of them. (Added 15/1/2011)
ANSWER FROM STAN BATE: I believe that the man standing has a striking resemblance to Bert Trautmann, the famous goalkeeper who played for St Helens Town and later Manchester City. If my memory serves me right, Bert Trautmann married a woman who lived in one of the houses opposite the St Helens Hospital in Marshalls Cross Road. Mr Trautmann and his wife had a little boy who was unfortunately killed as a result of a road accident; it was at the time that Mr Trautmann played for Manchester City, and had just broken his neck in the FA Cup final. On the day of the little boy’s funeral, which took place at St Nicholas's Church, there was quite a crowd gathered in the road outside and, because the funeral took place around lunchtime, there were lots of schoolchildren present, including myself. When the funeral party arrived, Mr Trautmann could clearly be seen still wearing a surgical collar. Bert Trautmann was an adopted son of Sutton, and because of his strong ties here, I wonder if he could have been invited to attend whatever venue this might have been? (Added 19/2/2011)
RESPONSE FROM PATRICK SMITH: Thanks to Stan for his thoughts. However, I don't recall Bert ever coming to the National School and as a lover of football, I think Dad would have mentioned it. So I don't think the photograph is of Bert Trautmann. (Added 25/2/2011)
ANSWER FROM ARTHUR JENNION: The man standing is most certainly Bert Trautmann and the lady next to him is his wife Margaret (nee Friar). It was most probably taken at one or two meetings when he decided to live and play for St. Helens Town F.C. At the time there was a lot of ill feeling in Sutton toward this prisoner of war, who was making an impact on the town. He was not popular, and when it became known he was living with the Friars in Marshalls Cross Road, there was plenty of gossip toward the family. Eventually his football performances endeared himself to the populous, but the courtship with Margaret was a different kettle of fish. There was support for him from certain sections of the community in particular the clergy, a sort of reconciliation was spoken of. I do know it was spoken of that we (the folk of Sutton) should turn our thoughts and comments to a more favourable tone and at least give the man a chance. My personal view is the photograph was taken after the funeral of his son John Michael who died following a road traffic accident his funeral was held in Bramhall but his body was brought back to St.Nicholas for burial. Immediately afterwards Bert requested donations in the boys memory be made to the National Playing Fields Association. I think this photograph was taken at the time that request was made, following a funeral of a child is not the nicest thing to happen in life. In the picture there are some sad looking faces. (Added 4/4/2012)
ANSWER FROM JOAN BLACKLEDGE: The man in the first photo at the Vicarage standing next to the curate (John Lewis) is Fred Lester, one time Vicar's warden at St. Nicholas church. The man on the far right is Mr. Traverse, father of Brian Traverse. (Added 8/5/2012)
After visiting back and forth, and keeping up a correspondence for several years, a disagreement caused them to stop writing. Later efforts to find other family members have suggested that both Howard and his wife had died, and the children had moved away. When Priscilla died, someone else cleared her home, and many of the family research materials she had compiled were unfortunately lost. In doing her own studies of medieval liturgical arts, Donna gets to the UK/Europe fairly regularly now, and has often wanted to re-connect with and re-visit any family members that might be interested as well. The facts she can recall that might help in identifying them include:
a) Howard played the trumpet and directed a brass band at the coal mine where he was a safety inspector; he also taught several children to play the horn.
b) They had four children, one of whom played rugby for Lancashire (and who properly disputed the rights of Manchester's citizens to exist, on the playing field only, of course...).
c) They lived in a brick row house that backed onto a lane near where their oldest (married) son lived in another row house behind them, with his wife; at the time of Donna's and Anna's visit, in 1973, they were expecting their first child.
d) Staying about a week, Donna and her sister arrived by bicycle and train, and especially enjoyed the warm custard and jelly rolls May prepared, and the sausage rolls she made for high tea (and would love those recipes, now!)
e) The Taylors were related to the family of Alfred Howard by marriage in the mid-1800s; their daughter Angeline married an Alfred Barrow, from Widnis, who apparently came to live in St. Helens, possibly somewhere near his wife's family. Alfred's family came from Wigin in the early 1800s (c.1830).
f) One elderly female relative of the family was still alive in 1973 and had an irrepressible store of jokes, riddles ("what has soap for a nose, rope for a tail, four belly-whangers, and a wagabout?"--a cow) and old songs with which she could regale her visitors for several hours.
If anyone has information they would be willing to share, or would be willing to pass on this request to someone who might know more or be willing to respond directly themselves, it would be much appreciated! Please contact this website if you have any information. DONNA LA RUE (Added 11/01/2012)
I was born in 1943 in Sutton in Powell Street where a number of branches of the Williams family and some of the Simms also lived. In 1948 we moved to the 'step houses' in Robins Lane where I lived with my parents, Jack and Hannah, until I went to university in 1961. While the 'step houses' in Robins Lane are still there, Powell Street has all but disappeared, certainly number 23 has. My uncle was Tom Williams, quite a prominent local businessman, who owned the Red Rose bicycle and electrical shop on Peckershill Road opposite the end of Junction Lane (I think it's a takeaway now).
He also owned a yard and buildings off Fisher Street that he used as a garage and where he used to charge glass accumulators ('accys') that he sold or rented out for use in powering the early radios ('wirelesses'). The garage had been a slaughter house at one time (Fletchers?) and I remember it had a well in the yard covered over with bricks. I wonder if the occupants of the property that’s been built there still have the well in their garden or under the house or perhaps it was filled in? Long after his first wife died, uncle Tom married Alice Downs whose brother had the ironmonger's shop next door to the Red Rose. His daughter, my cousin Mary, eventually took over the shop. She still lives in Sutton.
Any help anyone can provide regarding the Lacy's will be very welcome. Also, if anyone has old photos of Powell Street, I would be delighted to see them. Finally, if anyone has a photo that includes number 64 Watery Lane, again I would be interested to see it. This house, which is no longer standing, was once occupied by my grandparents, Tom and Mary Williams. TOM WILLIAMS
ANSWER FROM HARRY HICKSON: The photo is taken at the Vicarage in New Street, and is I believe a prize-giving for the Sunday School class which covered Kindergarden, Infants and Junior age children. The people other than those named are Mr Walter Travers, the People’s Church Warden, who lived in Mill Lane near the Wheatsheaf Hotel, Mrs Travers presenting the little girl (unknown), with her prize, and Mr Fred Leicester - the Vicar’s Church Warden who also lived in Mill Lane next to Fenney’s Farm - at the microphone. Both Mr Travers, 1951-1962, and Mr Leicester, 1951-1961, were Wardens at the Church for ten years. (Added 28/2/2014)
ANSWER FROM HARRY HICKSON: In the first photo at the Vicarage I have no idea of the event, as you said, probably some prize giving, but the chap at the microphone looks awfully like a Mr Lester who lived in Mill Lane, and with his wife were very strong church attenders. He was a retired industrial chemist, and I believe was the Chief Chemist at the Magnum Research Factory during the war. Why he would be in the group I am not sure, and I don't recognise any others. In the second photo I agree that it is probably 'A leaving do', and I think the chap making the response is a Mr Ashcroft who taught me at Robins Lane Secondary Modern, and being Headmaster at Sutton Nash would have been a promotion for him. Here is a photo of the staff at Robins Lane in 1950 showing Mr Ashcroft extreme right, back row, it certainly looks like him, but whilst having some knowledge of my former staff after leaving school in 1952, Mr Ashcroft wasn't one of them. (Added 15/1/2011)
ANSWER FROM STAN BATE: I believe that the man standing has a striking resemblance to Bert Trautmann, the famous goalkeeper who played for St Helens Town and later Manchester City. If my memory serves me right, Bert Trautmann married a woman who lived in one of the houses opposite the St Helens Hospital in Marshalls Cross Road. Mr Trautmann and his wife had a little boy who was unfortunately killed as a result of a road accident; it was at the time that Mr Trautmann played for Manchester City, and had just broken his neck in the FA Cup final. On the day of the little boy’s funeral, which took place at St Nicholas's Church, there was quite a crowd gathered in the road outside and, because the funeral took place around lunchtime, there were lots of schoolchildren present, including myself. When the funeral party arrived, Mr Trautmann could clearly be seen still wearing a surgical collar. Bert Trautmann was an adopted son of Sutton, and because of his strong ties here, I wonder if he could have been invited to attend whatever venue this might have been? (Added 19/2/2011)
RESPONSE FROM PATRICK SMITH: Thanks to Stan for his thoughts. However, I don't recall Bert ever coming to the National School and as a lover of football, I think Dad would have mentioned it. So I don't think the photograph is of Bert Trautmann. (Added 25/2/2011)
ANSWER FROM ARTHUR JENNION: The man standing is most certainly Bert Trautmann and the lady next to him is his wife Margaret (nee Friar). It was most probably taken at one or two meetings when he decided to live and play for St. Helens Town F.C. At the time there was a lot of ill feeling in Sutton toward this prisoner of war, who was making an impact on the town. He was not popular, and when it became known he was living with the Friars in Marshalls Cross Road, there was plenty of gossip toward the family. Eventually his football performances endeared himself to the populous, but the courtship with Margaret was a different kettle of fish. There was support for him from certain sections of the community in particular the clergy, a sort of reconciliation was spoken of. I do know it was spoken of that we (the folk of Sutton) should turn our thoughts and comments to a more favourable tone and at least give the man a chance. My personal view is the photograph was taken after the funeral of his son John Michael who died following a road traffic accident his funeral was held in Bramhall but his body was brought back to St.Nicholas for burial. Immediately afterwards Bert requested donations in the boys memory be made to the National Playing Fields Association. I think this photograph was taken at the time that request was made, following a funeral of a child is not the nicest thing to happen in life. In the picture there are some sad looking faces. (Added 4/4/2012)
ANSWER FROM JOAN BLACKLEDGE: The man in the first photo at the Vicarage standing next to the curate (John Lewis) is Fred Lester, one time Vicar's warden at St. Nicholas church. The man on the far right is Mr. Traverse, father of Brian Traverse. (Added 8/5/2012)
ANSWER FROM HARRY HICKSON: Mrs George Parr was Mary Parr, born in Warrington about 1827, and George himself was the Manager at a Plate Glass works (was it Pilkingtons?), both living at Mill Lodge up to their deaths in 1904. However, I cannot find a Miss P Parr at Mill Lodge in the 1881 census. (Added 15/01/2011)
ANSWER FROM STAN BATE: In the early 1960s I worked as a driver for William Hancock and Son at the garage opposite Sutton Manor Colliery. Mr Hancock JP ran the garage along with his brother Harry and Barry his son; at that time Harry and Barry were more involved in the mechanical side of the business. I first met Barry Hancock some years earlier when I called at the garage for petrol and discovered that we each owned cars of the same make and year, the Singer Gazelle. They lived in the last of the two houses to the left of Jubits Lane, two hundred yards south of the junction with Union Bank Lane. I am led to believe that the house was named 'Aston Villa' after Aston Villa FC, who scored the goal by which Mr Hancock struck lucky on the football pools. They were undoubtedly amongst the most likeable people it has ever been my pleasure to meet. With reference to the Heward family, house builders - painters etc, who lived in Yew Tree Cottage in New Street. The house and outer buildings were demolished about 30 years ago, but it stood to the south of Sutton Cricket Club and had a sandstone wall that ran for about 75 yards along its frontage. In 1937 the Hewards built the terraced houses that stand opposite where Yew Tree Cottage once stood, one of which became our family home, and where my twin sister and I were born. They also built the houses in Yew Tree Avenue and Heward Avenue, and also the semi-detached houses in New Street opposite the cricket club. (Added 25/2/2011)
The TB Sanatorium Mystery
ANSWER FROM HARRY HICKSON: This is correct. Wards for patients with the various fever diseases were in the main building of the Sanatorium, commonly known as the Fever Hospital. Others with lung diseases such as TB, were in the 'Fresh Air' wards which were about 50 yards behind to the right. At some point in the '30s / '40s, patients were directed to the more specialised TB Hospital in Cheshire. Air pollution from industries on the north side such as Ravenhead Colliery, the glass factories, oxide and alkali plants, gas works etc. was probably another significant factor to the move. (Added 19/2/2011)
The Loyalty League was a conservative based movement during the 1920's/1930's whose aims were to vigilantly preserve the ideals of King, Protestantism, and the Empire, believing that they could be a protection against the evil forces of disloyalty and sedition. It pledged to uphold civil and religious freedom as well as equality together with the system of education. It aimed to teach civic duty and loyalty to the crown through the National school system, by displaying the National flag and singing the National Anthem. All of this started across the country after WW1, in which a large number of people gave considerable thought to the very heavy losses of life/injuries, many asking what was it all for (remember a Royal assassination started it). Sectarianism became a big issue, together with large unemployment numbers of returned military personnel, and the fight for women's rights started. All of these came into play at the same time, creating disillusionment, division, unrest, increased alcohol consumption (Temperance Leagues were also formed). So it was felt necessary to counter these forces, and what better way to achieve this than to rally around everything that they thought made Britain great; the Royal family, the Church of England, its Military, and its Empire across the world. In Sutton as in other parts of the country, Conservative Clubs became the meeting venue for this movement, and the 1930 photo shows the children at this club dressed in their Sunday best with Union Jack flags signifying the King and Empire, as well as some children in the dress of the Empire countries. Edie Carter's Father, J.H. Carter, was strongly into this movement, and Edie herself is seen in the photograph on the front row. (Added 26/3/2014)